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Topic: Why is it that Mastered tracks are somtimes out of key?

When playing along to recorded songs, especially some older songs I notice that the music is slightly off key. It is not like the guitar has been tuned down or anything, it is just not quite in key.

A couple of years back I was playing around with some chords and something I did made it sound like the Queen song "No-One But You". I decided I would try and learn the chords so I put the track on.

This was also slightly out of key making it impossible to play along to.

At the time I read a lot on the Brian May board. I decided to fire off an email to the site asking the question. To my amazement, the next morning I had a response saying Brian May himself had personally responded to my email on his site!

He mentioned a couple of reasons why this track was slightly out of tune but also mentioned that there were many reasons why a song would end up being slightly out of key. I have never known why.

Does anyone know what the reasons could be?

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Re: Why is it that Mastered tracks are somtimes out of key?

Here it is - courtesy of http://www.brianmay.com

**Mon 02 Aug 04**
THE PITCH OF NO ONE BUT YOU

Ah ! The strange key of No-One but You ! - an interesting question indeed.

There are MANY reasons why a recording might not be at "concert pitch". I won't go into them all here and now. But "No-One but You" is a special case. I originally recorded it as a solo track, and it was Roger who paid me the compliment of wanting to bring it under the Queen umbrella. Of course I couldn't refuse, because the subject matter was very much Queen relevant, and the track would reach Queen fans much more effectively if it appeared under "Queen" rather than "Brian May".

But of course as soon as you throw a song into a group arena, you no longer have full control. Queen was always a democracy, and songs were always pulled to pieces in the process of becoming Queen tracks. Almost always they benefited. My solo version of NOBY was more or less complete as regards keys, guitars, and vocals, but I had already asked Roger if he would play drums, as the piece was really "Taylor-Made" (sorry!) for him. Roger felt strongly that my tempo was too slow, and convinced me to try changing the tempo. I was happy with my vocal, but of course changing the speed of my track also changed the pitch. We decided against using the "stretching" technology to return the track to original pitch, since so much quality would have been lost (the machines are better now). So, unless I wanted to start all over again with my vocal, which I felt had that "First Thought" vibe, I was stuck with it being slightly raised in pitch. I got Roger to sing the middle verse so it would become more a Queen thing, using my track as the demo in this case .... I enjoyed 'producing' his vocal, pushing him to try things ... and Roger played superb drums - he has the ability to make you feel every hit is for a reason, a rare quality. So the track evolved into what you hear on "Queen Rocks". I mixed it, and actually contemplated returning it to the original pitch, but Roger was so convinced it would stop Radio playing the track, I gave in. That's one decision I've always regretted, (Radio pretty much never played it anyway!) but it's water under bridge....

So there it sits, about half way between A440 and the next semitone up! It annoys me greatly ! But for We Will Rock You I did a new arrangement, (to be sung by a girl, rather than us) which starts in a higher key and modulates to an even higher one for the last verse. The original song has a couple of interesting features, if you're interested! The mood is intended to be very much Ketty Lester's fabulous old hit "Love Letters in the Sand". The whole vibe of that song has always haunted me, and for this occasion it related directly to how I felt about Freddie. So the time signature is 6/8, which is also reminiscent of "We are the Champions". I had all this in mind writing the song, which I wanted to be a tribute to Freddie. One of the great innovations of "Champions", one of Freddie's little masterstrokes, is that when the song moves from Verse to Chorus, it modulates effortlessly and without apology up two keys. It would be hard to find another song written before that time which did this. Freddie had a fabulous ability to move songs around related keys, which still astounds me. Anyway, as part of the tribute, I decided that "No-One But You would do the same. So when you hear this song in our show, in London, Brisbane, Barcelona, Las Vegas, Moscow, or Cologne, the girl you see singing it moves between 3 different keys, and a span of 6 semitones in addition to the range of the melody. It's quite a demanding sing. Of course our wonderful Kerry Ellis set the standard as "Meat" in the original Dominion cast, which you can hear on the London cast album. She set a very high bench mark, every night for two years. If you are in the right part of the UK you can see Kerry in "Miss Saigon" on tour in the coming months - starting in Plymouth right now.

So, I ramble. But there ya go.

Love Bri

Re: Why is it that Mastered tracks are somtimes out of key?

What a guy. Effing Legend if there ever was one. Thats before I even mention Freddie!!!  default/cool

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Re: Why is it that Mastered tracks are somtimes out of key?

Yep he is a true genius and Freddie was certainly a legend that will live on in his music forever!

5 (edited by polyal 06-10-10 22:01:24)

Re: Why is it that Mastered tracks are somtimes out of key?

if its not in standard pitch for whatever reason put the track into cubase and fine tune it
then you will be able to sus it out and play along with it ( ie dont retune your git retune the track )

most guitar based releases are not referenced to standard pitch because there is no reason to be
...as long as the instruments in the performance are ' in tune ' thats all that matters... if you're using
a keyboard then every instrument is tuned to that...then ignoring  mastering skullduggery everything would
be at standard pitch

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Re: Why is it that Mastered tracks are somtimes out of key?

Thanks Polyal - I tend to find a lot of older tunes like black sabbath and early Queen to name a few seem to generally sit slightly off key and I assumed from what Brian May said above that this could be quite common in the production side of things.

When I used to use Audacity I found the pitch shift/time-shift function very useful for exactly this purpose. If it was slightly off I would alter it and save it as an MP3. If I was stuck on learning a song I could import it, slow it down without changing the pitch.

I could not see where to do this in cubase - I assume from what you say the functionality must be there?

Re: Why is it that Mastered tracks are somtimes out of key?

import the mp3 into cubase ..put it on a track...click on the waveform image ( event )....then
along the info bar above the project window you will see among other things a fine tune adjustment....adjust in real time to pitch the track ( event ) to the nearest key ( or to the key you want to learn it in )
..if you want to make it permanent ' bounce ' the event....sound quality will only suffer if you  adjust several semitones ....but that shoudnt be an issue if you're just doing it for convenience purposes

i have to do it frequenly as the vocalist im working with at the moment seems to do everything
in ' E ' so if i want to learn a song thats recorded in ' A ' i would drop it 5 semitones.. it makes nailing the song that much easier...when its sussed the original mp3 is then discarded or whatever

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