Guitar Forums

As I have said in interviews before, I dont practice to be fast. I have come from the shred 80's and twice caught tendinitis and that curbed my speed ambitions (I used to be heavy into Satriani (SWTA) and Eric Johnson (Ah Via Musicom). Today, the lower part of my left hand wrist is still somewhat numb from damage caused. I can play fast bursts if needed, but I'm far from technical any more. I also do not practice much as my teaching schedule takes up so much of my time, that at the end of the day the last thing I want to do is play guitar some more. Its a casualty of teaching 6 days a week.

I get more of a thrill ride by helping others and seeing where they go as a result, and myself sitting down with an acoustic and playing or writing some acoustic tunes.

But because of this, I have also "heard" fast music and playing differently, and this is the challenge/question that I want to pose to you today:

When you play or hear speed licks, what/why are they there?

One could argue that it's simply a matter of expression. It's like a voice, but I wonder how much of the time that is true.

What about the idea that to many the expectation of having speed is a part of being "good"?

What about "I play this so people think Im good", it sort of establishes our credentials to be up there or taken seriously, do we play fast because subconsciously we believe we are expected to?

What about our choice of licks or reasons we apply them? Do they speak to us, or do they speak to others?

As you can see I'm talking about our motivations, for playing something, and in this case it's to evaluate and ask tough questions about speed. Do we play so that others think we are good? rather than play because this is what the song, or solo needed?

Can we take a song and NOT play fast and come up with something meaningful?

I understand these are some tough man-in-the-mirror questions, but what if the answer to these questions, is an inhibitor to the music inside? Would it not be worth addressing?

Since I cannot play quickly very well anymore, (especially by todays standards , it's forced me to hear and listen to what others play differently. My father, when I was growing up used to call fast playing "Guitar acrobatics", his point being was that it said less to him than hearing melody. I thought he was crazy and just being an "old guy" back then, but is there any truth to this?

In closing I am going to share a recent find, that made me think about what we do when we play. This may not be you're first thought of a guitar hero, but in listening to him, I learned a lot, and its made me think more about what I say, than speed...are we missing out on something?

[youtube]/watch?v=c9aV92n_st4[/youtube]

Also, listen to some Opeth, and the leads these guys play...the music sounds more genuine to me than most things that I hear now days.

[youtube]/watch?v=kCeXmWKr4SU[/youtube]

I welcome your thoughts and comments.

i agree with that ♪♪
i think many guitarists think fast is ' cool ' or ' macho ' it can be both when applied
appropriately .....but i have seen many a track ruined by unexplainable fast playing..having
spent many (t)years running a recording studio

i was also at a ' new faces ' ( the talent show of the 70,s ) recording..and saw my mates band
ripped apart by micky most and tony hatch because of the immature playing of the lead git
player who didn't know what slow meant ...he wrecked the song..even after being warned about flying off on an ego trip ( he aught to have been sacked
before the broadcast..not after..which he was )

i think shred is a cult and there are some amazing technicians ..one of my favourites
is paul gilbert...speed is an attribute and its nice to have the ability to play fast
when the music requires it

I spent much time in the past trying to play fast because I thought if I could play fast it meant that I could properly play the guitar and play other peoples music as well as create my own.

Now I realise that speed has nothing to do with what I was trying to achieve. Timing and correct articulation as well as decent phrasing is more important.

I agree totally with Polyal though - speed is certainly an attribute but ONLY when it is applied when the music requires it. In addition, to me, playing a fast inaudible bunch of notes does nothing for me though a fast melodic phrase may well float my boat.

Same as olly, when i started to play i thought that if i play fast, i can play guitar well.

I thought this because of the music that i listened to. (metal)

Now i am personally working on ear training and phrasing, i think that is how you feel you play guitar, not by shredding random note so that you look cool.

NicolaePaul wrote:Now i am personally working on ear training and phrasing, i think that is how you feel you play guitar, not by shredding random note so that you look cool.

Good work. Welcome to the forum - good to have you around!

I definitely agree that playing random fast notes just to look cool isn't great musically! However, I wouldn't think of all fast, unmelodic playing as being bad. I think it depends on what the song needs- sometimes a burst of pure speed (with all the excitement, and energy that goes with it) is the best way to increase the intensity of a song.

Don't get me wrong though! I'm far from being one of those guys that plays everything at 1000mph, and I don't practice just for speed either. I practice for accuracy and dexterity, and speed is a byproduct of accuracy...but so is melody!

I just think that speed can have it's place, that's all.

Well I've heard your playing Chain, and I know it can have it's place, but in most cases Ive seen it as a replacement for musicality. And held as a standard of being "good".

Instructor

Instructor, out of interest, where did you hear me play?

I admit I do play fairly fast sometimes, but I only ever put in faster stuff when I feel like the song needs it (which may well be more often than some people because I listen to a lot of rock/metal etc). I guess that comes down to taste though...

The main point here is: fast =/= good, it is a musical device that can be used like any other. Some of us might use it more often than others, but then again some of us will use fingerpicking more often than others.

I think one of (if not THE) worst person for using speed as a standard for being any good is Yngwie Malmsteen (who's guitar playing I can't actually stand for too long...). Again, that might be my taste though...

...even the concept of what is "fast" is kinda subjective...

I think its like any guitar technique and is great when used with taste and timing. I do spend a lot of time trying to play the guitar faster because it helps me play slow as well (if that makes sense). I just see it as something to aim for to make my playing more interesting.

two cool vids loved the second one alot i get what your saying i still love my satriani eric johnson etc but the older i get iam listening to guitarists whos more into playing the right notes at the right time eg robin ford joe bonamasa my freinds al brown and laurence thompson defo appreciate the point of this conversation

[youtube]/watch?v=YemxMvCGFb8[/youtube]

[youtube]/watch?v=j-Rz9_xugIU[/youtube]

can you guys post some more videos of artists who are not about shred but more like right note at right time kinda players hubert sumlin of howling wolf is another i love his gaps n little bursts of gorjus proper blues cool thread this

tendonitus ouch i had problems with my left hand via plumbing ive rattled my hand so many times with a hammer raggling walls for pipes etc struggle with my little finger these days its like lazy finger i can still use it but not the way i used to i feel your pain sean how did you get tendonitus and howd you get through it i think you'll all agree hand injurys are our worst nightmare

Chain,

I'm a teacher too, I know you from UG and visited your site and wrote you complimenting your approach as a teacher and your strength of theory knowledge. I'm Sean0913 on there.

chainsawguitar wrote:Instructor, out of interest, where did you hear me play?

I admit I do play fairly fast sometimes, but I only ever put in faster stuff when I feel like the song needs it (which may well be more often than some people because I listen to a lot of rock/metal etc). I guess that comes down to taste though...

The main point here is: fast =/= good, it is a musical device that can be used like any other. Some of us might use it more often than others, but then again some of us will use fingerpicking more often than others.

I think one of (if not THE) worst person for using speed as a standard for being any good is Yngwie Malmsteen (who's guitar playing I can't actually stand for too long...). Again, that might be my taste though...

...even the concept of what is "fast" is kinda subjective...

bigiain wrote:tendonitus ouch i had problems with my left hand via plumbing ive rattled my hand so many times with a hammer raggling walls for pipes etc struggle with my little finger these days its like lazy finger i can still use it but not the way i used to i feel your pain sean how did you get tendonitus and howd you get through it i think you'll all agree hand injurys are our worst nightmare

I got my first bout in the late 80's trying to do Eric Johnson like stretches and trying to hold two notes with those stretches at the fingertips like he demonstrated. I pushed myself too hard and paid for it. I was sidelined for 6 months. The way I got over it, was waiting it out. I never tried to play overly fast again. My Vai and Satriani days and wanna be shred dreams werent worth the prospect of possibly losing my ability to play entirely. So now I'm mostly a legato player in terms of speed, and my fret stretches are limited to 5 frets.

The last bout of tendonitis, and the subsequent numbness that I now have in my left wrist was about 3 years ago, I was doing something that involved a bit of a stretch but not that much, and thought I was well within my range of motion. Turned out I was wrong. It was excruciating and lasted about12 weeks. I worried greatly because I make my livlihood teaching people, and the thought that I'd never be able to play or teach again concerned me.

Today I can still play, but again, it just took time, and a couple trips to the doctor. I have had friends suggest nero trigger therapy but I have opted to not mess with it, and just live with it. I dont want to risk any further damage to it, by trying something that makes the pain return or unbearable.

Instructor

yeah mr eric johnsons fret stretches are bad ass for sure do you need any kind of physiotherapy to over come this or any tips to avoid getting it ?

I found that not trying to be fast and just to know my stuff helped to get me faster.

BTW noob here, how do I set a sig?

guitarteacher wrote:I found that not trying to be fast and just to know my stuff helped to get me faster.

BTW noob here, how do I set a sig?

That's actually a very good point. Just knowing it well will bring the speed.

Instructor

Instructor wrote:As I have said in interviews before, I dont practice to be fast. I have come from the shred 80's and twice caught tendinitis and that curbed my speed ambitions (I used to be heavy into Satriani (SWTA) and Eric Johnson (Ah Via Musicom). Today, the lower part of my left hand wrist is still somewhat numb from damage caused. I can play fast bursts if needed, but I'm far from technical any more. I also do not practice much as my teaching schedule takes up so much of my time, that at the end of the day the last thing I want to do is play guitar some more. Its a casualty of teaching 6 days a week.

I get more of a thrill ride by helping others and seeing where they go as a result, and myself sitting down with an acoustic and playing or writing some acoustic tunes.

But because of this, I have also "heard" fast music and playing differently, and this is the challenge/question that I want to pose to you today:

When you play or hear speed licks, what/why are they there?

One could argue that it's simply a matter of expression. It's like a voice, but I wonder how much of the time that is true.

What about the idea that to many the expectation of having speed is a part of being "good"?

What about "I play this so people think Im good", it sort of establishes our credentials to be up there or taken seriously, do we play fast because subconsciously we believe we are expected to?

What about our choice of licks or reasons we apply them? Do they speak to us, or do they speak to others?

As you can see I'm talking about our motivations, for playing something, and in this case it's to evaluate and ask tough questions about speed. Do we play so that others think we are good? rather than play because this is what the song, or solo needed?

Can we take a song and NOT play fast and come up with something meaningful?

I understand these are some tough man-in-the-mirror questions, but what if the answer to these questions, is an inhibitor to the music inside? Would it not be worth addressing?

Since I cannot play quickly very well anymore, (especially by todays standards , it's forced me to hear and listen to what others play differently. My father, when I was growing up used to call fast playing "Guitar acrobatics", his point being was that it said less to him than hearing melody. I thought he was crazy and just being an "old guy" back then, but is there any truth to this?

In closing I am going to share a recent find, that made me think about what we do when we play. This may not be you're first thought of a guitar hero, but in listening to him, I learned a lot, and its made me think more about what I say, than speed...are we missing out on something?

[youtube]/watch?v=c9aV92n_st4[/youtube]

Also, listen to some Opeth, and the leads these guys play...the music sounds more genuine to me than most things that I hear now days.

[youtube]/watch?v=kCeXmWKr4SU[/youtube]

I welcome your thoughts and comments.

The second video I saw many times, its quite helpful for newbies like me..