Guitar & Musician Forums

I have raised this one before but didn't get too much feedback.

I would love to understand a bit more about using borrowed chords within my playing. Often when I listen to music I think, "I like that bit" then when I work it out I realise the reason I find it interesting is in fact there is a chord or set of chords being used that is outside of the key.

One that I have noticed that occurs quite a bit is where the 4th chord of the key (IV) is subsequently followed by the (iv) same chord but minor. This is outside of the key but it works well.

So I wonder what other chords work like this and how I can go about finding them without just trying random combinations.

Secondary dominants is another thing that I see a lot in compositions by Queen and a lot of other artists. I kind of understand the theory but when i try to use them myself, they break the flow of music, rather than add to the excitement of it.

So if anyone does understand these points perhaps you can offer advice on how I can start using both borrowed chords and secondary dominants (and maybe other things) within my music.

Olly wrote:I have raised this one before but didn't get too much feedback.

I would love to understand a bit more about using borrowed chords within my playing. Often when I listen to music I think, "I like that bit" then when I work it out I realise the reason I find it interesting is in fact there is a chord or set of chords being used that is outside of the key.

One that I have noticed that occurs quite a bit is where the 4th chord of the key (IV) is subsequently followed by the (iv) same chord but minor. This is outside of the key but it works well.

So I wonder what other chords work like this and how I can go about finding them without just trying random combinations.

Secondary dominants is another thing that I see a lot in compositions by Queen and a lot of other artists. I kind of understand the theory but when i try to use them myself, they break the flow of music, rather than add to the excitement of it.

So if anyone does understand these points perhaps you can offer advice on how I can start using both borrowed chords and secondary dominants (and maybe other things) within my music.

The most obvious way I would suggest is start looking at Parallel Major and Minor scales. Also, have an understanding of common sub chords, voice leadings, inversions etc.

The concept of Modulation is important as well, be it stepwise. Music can move many ways. Why not post a harmonic analysis of a song that you think is good, and then I can look it over. Most people fail or struggle with seeing the ii V I's for example in key changes, and instead of seeing the change or transition, they try and relate this to 1 key, and it's not.

Thus they miss the understanding of borrowed chords like an Ab in the key of C and assume its an "accidental", when in fact its just modulated to C minor.

There are other easy sub chords, like the vi and ii are basically the same as the I chord etc, the b5 (or tritone substitution) or V/V ideas, but these are all requiring the understanding of the basic levels of theory, as I am sure you can appreciate, especially if you're reading this and have no idea what I'm talking about.

Teachings for this are not easy to find. We teach it, but only after we've made sure the student has a functional mastery of the basics.

Instructor

Ok, I would be up for attempting this if you could offer your help as well to see how good (or bad) my understanding is.

I will have a think about some songs to work with but I am thinking along the lines of something by Queen as they seem to move around a lot and rarely stick to one diatonic key.